azn5ucka86

Which should I take?

Right now I'm trying to lose some weight (fat weight at least) and gain some muscle mass in the upper body. My diet isn't the best, but I try to eat alot of fruits and keep my calories around the 1500 range, but I guess I'm missing certain vital nutrients for fat burning and muscle massing. Which of these two should I take, and how often a day?

ChillRobP

iTrader: (1)

Take the 100% protein, especially early in the morning. This way, your body is put into an anabolic state and it won't breakdown muscle for fuel. make sure you do some cardio, because diet by itself won't help. Also, eat low GI carb foods. Sweet potatoes, oatmeal, wholemeal breads, yogurt, etc. The creatine, (depending on what kind) will help you build muscle, and bigger muscles mean more calories to burn. Lift weights, do cardio, and eat a balanced diet. Just eat certain foods at the right time. Try to limit yourself to fish or chicken at night, with some veggies or a salad. Eat your carb rich foods early in the day.

fdl

Creatine will add on a few pounds of water weight. Go with the protein.

ccannizz11

apparently the new creatine (CEE) won't do that anymore

https://acurazine.com/forums/health-fitness-34/question-creatine-315848/

Doc.Booty

Or the effects are at least reduced. Some claim the inreased water retention doens' thappen at all, some claim it's merely better. I haven't tried CEE so i can't say 1st hand.

You said you want to add mass and lose fat. Like i said in the stickies, pick one. Gaining mass requires you to eat more than you burn, losing fat requires you to eat less. Only if you're just starting out or using steroids will both happen at once. Trying to do both at once is like trying to walk north and south at the same time.

As for the supplements...

Creatine really helps me push that extra bit in the gym to really tear myself up. But it won't do you any good unless you use that extra energy boost that comes with it. Creatine allows you to work even harder, to grind out a few extra reps with a little bit more weight to tear up your muscles just a little bit more. It does nothing for you on its own. THere's a link in the nutrition sticky for info on creatine (or at least there should be ), check it out.

Whey protein is just protein. It's food. Use it if it fits your diet. I like to have a shake for breakfast instead of a bagel or bowl of cereal. It's just about the leanest, easiest way to get in your protein. Whey is great for that. It's also awesome (if not essential) for your post-workout meal. When worked into your diet properly whey is the best supplement out there.

Keep in mind neither of these are magic supplements. If you start taking them and change nothing else they won't do you any good - in fact they could hinder your progress. Make sure you have the basics down - diet and exercise - before you start buying supplements.

azn5ucka86

I already have the diet narrowed down, and the exercise down also. Doing at least an hour of lifting a day along with 50 minutes of straight cardio, about 4-5 times a week.

I read somewhere that creatine helps to promote fat burning as well as muscle gains, is this true?

I was also told that protein directly after a work out is necessary for massing for the reason of immediate muscle repair?

This goes on to the topic of isolates, should I be getting a protein or a protein isolate, isolates are supposed to absorb or be useful faster then regular protein?

FiftyFive

i say stack, how much weight are you trying to lose?

Doc.Booty

So you're trying to lose fat first, correct? It's very likely you're overdoing it with all of this exercise and only 1500 calories. Changes don't happen overnight. Being patient is absolutely critical. You run the risk of burning off muscle, getting sick, and injuring yourself if you keep up a pace this intensive. That's assuming you can keep it up.

I've heard both ways. Some say it can help, some say it inhibits. Either way it doesn't REALLY matter; so long as you're under your daily required calories you'll be burning fat (assuming proper protein intake, etc.). The same goes for the "60% max heart rate is better for burning fat!" line. It doesn't matter where the calories come from when you burn them. In a deficit your body has to get them from the protein in your muscles, whatever is in your bloodstream (and possibly other places, i'm not an anatomy/physiology major) and stored in your muscles, or fat stores. With proper nutrition and exercise the muscle protein is not an option, so it goes for your fat. There's also research that says that if you burn more fat than normal during some activity or exercise, your body will consume a more than normal amount of carbohydrate energy stored in your muscles (in the form of glycogen i think, someone who can remember all these terms correct me if i'm wrong) at a later time. In the end it all balances out.

True. Post-workout nutrition is extremely important. Your muscles are just DYING for some protein. Give em an easily absorbed whey shake - with a shot of gatorade if you can spare the calories - and they'll love you for it.

So long as it's whey it'll work.

azn5ucka86

thanks for the response abreece

I'm figuring my daily intake to maintain my weight is 12*160 = 1920, so roughly a 400 calorie variance is what I'm saving from eating alone. Should I up my calorie intake for the day?

Where is a good place to physically buy protein whey isolate? I'm really just eating 5 egg whites a night when I come back from the gym to try to get my protein, but of course a shake is simpler and more time efficient, is GNC overpriced for what it is? Any recommended flavors? Do you need a blender to mix the powder also?

What should I be eating before the workout? I usually eat a bowl of cereal (cheerios) around 9am in the morning, and then some sort of lunch at 12 that goes along the line of a sandwich/salad or whatever is the special at the cafeteria at work (not really calorie efficient) and then a medium sized dinner either right after work at 5/6 or dinner right after the workout which is usually 9/10 (alot of times its a salad with a sandwich or a subway 6''). That pretty much satisfies my calorie goal for the day.

Would taking in caffeine as a supplement an hour or two before goin to the gym be bad? I have a bottle of caffeine pills that I use at work when I'm pretty tired, I usually break it into fourths or halves and never take the full 200mg. I was thinking to increase workout efficient to take maybe 50mg of caffeine.

Doc.Booty

If you're lifting as much as you are now, I'd up it, yes. How long have you been on this diet/exercise plan? How much weight have you lost/gained?

Good job on the egg whites, egg protein rocks.

Every physical store i've ever found is at least double what i pay online. Right now i'm in love with Substance WPI. THe grape and watermelon flavors taste like kool-aide when mixed in water, and it's just whey protein Only downside is it's expensive. Optimum Nutrition is a solid, inexpensive brand that a lot of people like. Buy the 2lb tub of whatever flavor you think sounds good (i hear cookies and cream is almost too sweet) and try it. I don't think it tastes very good, but you really shouldn't drink whey for taste. Supposedly ON Whey tastes a LOT better in milk, i only take my whey with water.

As far as mixing it, any decent whey will mix really easily. I make my shakes in a shaker cup. Pour in 5 ounces of water, 2 scoops of whey, shake a lot, chug. If you add ice and fruit and all that jazz you'll need a blender.

I'm not as familiar with pre-workout nutrition as i'd like to be, i haven't had a chance to read as much as i want to on it, but it is important. I down a whey shake and a handful of cheerios about 45-60 minutes before i lift and it really helps me feel better during my workout.

Some bodybuilders like caffeine, but it isn't necessary. If you're tired in the gym, get more sleep.

azn5ucka86

been on the diet/exercise plan for about a month, my average calorie intake isn't 1500, i just did an average of the log sheet i have and its more around 1700, since on the weekends i tend to be 'less' caring of what i eat, but still try to go to the gym for a bit, i've lost 5lbs over that time, but i haven't seemed to move from 160 in the last week, my weight ranges from 159-161 typically, weighing myself at the same time every night

what's the site you get the WPI from, that sounds interesting, how much more is it then the Optimum Nutrition brand?

How 'immediate' do you need to consume protein after a work out? I usually end up lifting first, and then doing cardio for an hour or so, don't make it home for another 10-20, and then 20-30 minutes for the eggs to boil, is this too late?

btw, thanks for all your help, it's tremendously informative for me, since i'm starting practically new, and not many people i know have alot of knowledge on it

Doc.Booty

That's a short time to lose that much weight. It isn't necessarily too much, but most people won't lose pounds for the first few weeks of a new diet and exercise plan, the body has to adjust. Keep an eye on how fast you're losing, aim for 1 pound per week. If you're really fat you can lose faster, b ut i don't think you are (pics would help, btw).

Your weight will fluctuate on a daily, hell even hourly, basis. Weigh yourself once every a week on the same day and at the same time. I do it Monday morning.

1fast400.com. Last i checked it was about twice what ON costs from that same store, which is about the same as ON would cost in a retail store.

As soon as possible. It really needs to be within an hour of finishing your workout. I'd drop the hour of cardio after, too. That extra cardio after a workout will influence your body to burn muscle for fuel, which you don't want to do. And honestly if you have the energy to do cardio for 50 minutes after you lift, you aren't lifting hard enough. Hit the gym for an hour at a time 3 or 4 days a week, do your cardio on days you aren't in the gym. A nice split a lot of people use is M-W-F gymtime, T-R cardio, weekends to rest. Always remember to rest sufficiently.

No problem

azn5ucka86

Would cardio be better done in the beginning of the workout? I usually save it for after because I don't like to lift dripping sweat, and I primarily lift upper body only so it doesn't really affect my running aside from the fact that my arms feel inflated.

Should I be liftin weights geared toward the lower half also? I feel my legs are pretty fit, toned hams and calves, that's why I usually don't use my time doin that.

I guess varying my days goes back to wether I want to lose weight or gain muscle. I'm still trying to both at once, at least lose weight and gain definition.

If I keep up the exercise routine that I do now, what else could happen (negative) aside from possibly burning muscle instead of fat.

I'm about 5'6/160 right now, if that helps, no pictures at work. I've played basketball for nearly 10 years, played much more in high school so my legs are bigger than the my upper.

Doc.Booty

I prefer to just not do cardio on the days I lift, i want as much energy for my workout as i can. A 10-15 minute warmup is okay, but after a 50 minute run or bike ride you'll be too drained to do enough weight lifting to see the most benefit. I still suggest doing them on different days.

Upper or lower body , you should be physically drained from your workout.

Absolutely. If you don't keep those leg muscles strained (and just cardio isn't enough of a strain) you risk losing the muscle mass you have.

Lose weight and gain definition falls under losing fat. Definition is 90% low bodyfat. You need some muscle to show off once you're lean, but being lean in the first place is most important.

Injury would be my #1 worry. Now maybe i'm overblowing the risks of you hurting yourself, you say you've played a lot of basketball so you're probably in pretty good shape already. Nevertheless a vigorous workout will put your body through a lot of stress and it needs time to recover.

In addition to that, vigorous exercise decreases the effectiveness of your immune system. That's not a problem so long as you make sure to rest and let it recover. Getting sick will only hamper your progress.

I'm still wondering about how hard you're working in the gym. Maybe you just have great endurance from the basketball - I'm far from an experience fitness coach - but if you hit em hard enough, you really shouldn't WANT to do anything else.

Post pics when you can. I'll be able to tell a lot more about your body composition from them.

azn5ucka86

yea i don't think i'm hitting it as hard as i want, i tend to do alot of similar workouts also, alot focusing on tricep/bicep, chest and shoulders, that's typically what i do for about 1-2hrs, i try to max out all the exercises that i do, and rep whatever energy i have left but i don't think i'm "straining" myself alot, i feel like my arms are usually really inflated when i'm done though

another thing about benching, i don't usually have a spotter so i'm stuck to doing reps, usually at like 115 or so (2x35) or even (2x25) if i'm tired

i'll get some pics later today when i'm off work

Doc.Booty

25 or 35 reps? That's wayyyyyyy too many. Up the weight so you're maxing out at 8-10 reps. That'll really up the intensity of your workout.

BEETROOT

35 reps at 115? I've never tried that but that sounds extremely difficult. You sure about those numbers?

azn5ucka86

ahh i could have said that a little bit clearer, i meant 2 35lb weights or 2 25lb weights, which i'm doing about 10 reps 2 or 3 times

still in my early stages of bench pressing, i used to stay away from it completely until recently

BEETROOT

Try starting off your workout with bench press and leg press. Working the larger muscles really gets your blood flowing, gives you energy. Not sure if this is any kind of actual physiological thing but it works for me.


Oh and as for the adding mass/ losing weight thing, I'd go towards losing weight first. You'll see results quicker, which helps keep you inspired...and once you do start adding mass, again, you'll see results quicker since you are leaner and will have better definition.

Doc.Booty

When referring to the weight, add all the plates and the weight of the bar (45lbs for the olympic bar). Much less confusing

Keep your weight at such a level that you really have to struggle for your last few reps. Aim for 8-10 reps.

Whiskers

When is a good time of day to take creatine? And how much?